Google is the king of search engines, but there are other search platforms (like Bing and Yahoo), too. In this episode, Michael, Chris, and David discuss various tools and platforms, and where you should consider investing time, research, and dollars.

  • Which search engines to optimize for
  • What tools to use
  • How voice search will impact marketing across platforms

For more information about the tools and techniques discuss in this episode, please visit:

Below is a transcript of this episode.

Episode Transcript

Chris Raines: I mean in five years will people… people will probably be saying, ‘Hey Alexa, find me a painting company.’

Michael Utley: Yeah.

Chris Raines: And so what are you going to do?

David Chism: They’re already doing that.

Chris Raines: So what are you doing right now to make sure that you’re visible and audible for that sort of action?

Intro: Welcome to Grow Your Painting Business, a podcast for commercial, residential and industrial painters to grow their businesses in their local or regional markets. We’re experts in digital marketing for painters and other trades, and this is a show to share our experience with you. Grow Your Painting Business is a free podcast from, the experts in digital marketing for the trades.

Chris Raines: Alright and welcome to episode 30 of Grow Your Painting Business the podcast from My name is Chris Raines. I’m joined by Micheal Eli of Go AEPS.

Michael Utley: Hello, hello.

Chris Raines: How’s it going?

Michael Utley: Good. Glad to be here. It’s a great Friday in Nashville.

Chris Raines: It is and this is the podcast where we talk about growing your painting business and Micheal who better to talk to about growing your painting business than David Chisum, the guy that’s grown many painting businesses including his own years ago and we’re going to talk to him again. We talked to him on episode 29 and we’ve got another topic queued up and why don’t you introduce the audience to what we’re going to talk about with David Chisum today.

Michael Utley: Yeah, absolutely. We’re talking to A David Creations own David Chisum. If you want to learn about him while you’re listening, you can go to and if anybody hasn’t heard it I would definitely recommend the previous episode, episode 29 and David’s been on the show before. He’s not a business coach in the sense of being sort of a franchise cookie cutter type business coach working from a book that he bought from someone. He’s actually someone who grew up in the painting business and knows the industry from the inside and he’s been doing this for many years now and has been very successful with growing a lot of businesses and has a great operations team around himself at his home office, excuse me, his headquarters in downtown Frederick, Maryland and it’s not a home office, it’s an office office but from his home city is what I was trying to say.

Michael Utley: So David, I think the way that I would shorten and simplify what he is is somewhere between fractional CMO and marketing team quarterback. He pulls together different companies, SEO services, paid search and social media advertising services, video advertising companies, video production capabilities, print marketing. He’s got a really great partnership that he serves his clients with with print marketing. And so he’s able to pull all these things in together and instead of company’s having vendors all over the place and having to track all this stuff and not knowing who’s neck to ring, they’ve got one neck to ring, which is the way that most of them have put it to us in the past. In full disclosure, SearchPrimer is one of the SEO companies that David uses, and so we do work together. David is not in any way an owner or part of SearchPrimer in a technical sense, but we do work with him time to time on some projects. David welcome to the show again today.

David Chism: [inaudible 00:03:25] for having me back. It’s good to be here.

Michael Utley: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so here’s what we’re going to talk about. This is kind of a short topic today. We’re actually not going to dig too deep into this, but we’re going to use it kind of as a jumping off point for thinking about blind spots. I cannot tell you how many conversations I’ve been in where we talk about Google, Google, Google, and it’s true that Google is dominant and has a significant majority of market share for search engines. But here’s our question for the day. What about Bing? What about Yahoo? What about other search engines? So David, can you just kind of share your overall thoughts, not just on this specific thing of search engines but blind spots in general. How in your work with your working with different commercial and residential painters all across the country, typically range anywhere from a million up to 25 million in annual revenues, but what do you see and what’s the conversation like and how has it been for them in terms of thinking about blind spots?

Michael Utley: Because sometimes I think they’re overwhelmed and there’s too many of these things and it’s like, gosh, if we do all this stuff for Google, do we have to go back and do a whole different set of stuff for Bing? And then, gosh, do we need to do a whole different set of things for Yahoo? Or do we get some of the benefit from what we do with Google? Does it spill over? How does all that work and what’s it like relating to customers and sort of keeping them not overwhelmed but pointed in a good direction so that they’re not missing out on opportunities but they’re not overwhelmed by the variety of options. So can you just tell us kind of what your perspective’s been on that whole thing?

David Chism: Yeah I mean, again, I’m not the SEO expert, that’s in your field, but from what I’ve seen with my clients is I… Google does… It’s King of the majority of searches that we see out there and it’s very easy to… With the phones that we have to with Android and Apple making up the majority of smartphones, most searches are going to be handled through Google platform. Apple’s trying to push you to a few other platforms out there. But I would say with Bing and Yahoo, there’s still something that we can’t dismiss and I would say what I’ve told my clients is that, hey there are people that don’t use Google and it’s because they get their new computer from the computer store, they order their PC, it’s going to come pre-installed with either Bing or Yahoo as the primary search engine and that’s where people are searching or if they have their email with this, there’s a lot of folks that are… Microsoft is to some degree making a comeback against Google cause with their Microsoft 365.

David Chism: They’re pushing their platform and everything they’re going to be doing is going to be Bing and Yahoo. So I tell folks that. Focus on Google, get your reviews, write your blogs and all that and yet talk to your SEO team too and make sure that Bing and Yahoo are part of that strategy of… Same way with a paid search campaign too. Throw a little bit of budget at the Bing and Yahoo cause it does… There are search results there that people are utilizing that, those platforms too, if their search inquiry. And the one other thing I would say along with that is with reviews, again, not everybody has a Google account as well. Sometimes they’re just completely avoiding it. Or sometimes the incorporations when I’m working with commercial painters and they’re looking to get reviews, they have a really hard time getting the corporate folks to write reviews because they don’t have a way to log into a Google platform.

Michael Utley: Right.

David Chism: And so they’re able to utilize other search engines, log-ins. But sometimes I know with Yelp you can log-in with your Facebook account. Most people have a Facebook account. So there’s other things that you got to be aware of and make sure you don’t miss out.

Michael Utley: Yeah and those things we know all influence SEO. I would even add that I think that it’s good to kind of start with Google, but then to go ahead and do some of the basics. Lately we’ve been updating our, we’re calling it SEO 360, so meaning having one document where we’re taking a 360 degree review of a client’s SEO situation. So when we start with a new client going forward in SearchPrimer, what we’re going to do is start with the implementation steps of that program being set up, complete those and then essentially work from the top down a set of priorities for search engine optimization. So one of our prep actions now is going ahead and loading up Bing webmaster tools. So we’ve used Google webmaster tools for years and have really depended on it significantly but now we’re going ahead and setting up Bing and just having a little fail safe check to say, ‘Hey, are we getting indexed? How many pages do we have indexed?’ And since we’ve been doing that, we’ve been finding errors and resolving them. Some of them have been things that were issues in Bing that were not generating the same errors in Google webmaster tools. So there is stuff out there.

Michael Utley: You mentioned something David and I wanted to kind of broaden this up to blind spots and actually I want to throw a question to Chris. This is interesting but we’ve been talking lately about how voice is changing search and if we’re thinking about this as not just literally an episode about just Bing or Yahoo, but about blind spots overall we kind of stumbled on, Chris kind of had an aha moment this week and said, “Wow, voice search is really creating a new set of negatives that need to be added to search campaigns.” And that’s a total blind spot. I think that would be absolutely a revelation to our clients. I don’t think they would understand that. Chris, can you just orient us to what that blind spot was and how you sort of had that revelation this week?

Chris Raines: Well, you mentioned negative keywords and that’s key.

Michael Utley: Not exactly keywords, but yeah.

Chris Raines: For paid search you’ll add negative keywords and you’re telling Google, I do not want to show up for these search terms. And I had another account I was working on and I had to start omitting things like, ‘Hey Google, give me directions to,’ ‘Hey Google,’ people that had just want… What we call information queries. But I think the bigger change is when people search on voice or ask Alexa or ask Google something, Google can really only say one thing back. So it’s not this list of options that you have and so it’s going to make brand more important because you want people to say, ‘Give me X,’ fill in brand name, ‘Where’s the nearest dominoes?’ Not, ‘Where’s the nearest pizza place.’ Because then Alexa’s going to just show you whatever she wants to, she’s going to tell you what she wants to tell you. So the more you can grow your brand and become like people want you, your brand name and not you, your category, that’s going to be more important as people move to voice search. So that was… I was thinking about yesterday.

Michael Utley: So the same way that we have kind of these blind spots that can happen with search engines, we can also essentially have them with devices and understanding where the volume of search activity is happening. It’s not just a question of, ‘Well which search engine do I look at?’ It’s gosh it’s, ‘Which devices do I need to understand?’

Chris Raines: I mean in five years will people… People will probably be saying, ‘Hey Alexa, find me a painting company.’.

Michael Utley: Yeah.

Chris Raines: And so what are you going to do?

David Chism: They’re already doing that?

Chris Raines: So what are you doing right now to make sure that you’re visible and audible for that sort of action?

Michael Utley: So our position right now, David, to get your feedback is, is branding going to be one of the single most important things as we move into the land of voice?

David Chism: Absolutely yeah. I mean that I’ve been watching the voice, I’ve been watching my kids and I’ve been watching I would say the older audience with voices. It almost seems like, I don’t know, what us in the middle, I’m in my forties now. So my kids are using voice like crazy. They fully understand the Alexa devices way more than. I was one of the first to get an Alexa device before, like pre-release. And I didn’t really like it. That’s just not the way… Even to this day, I have a really hard time voicing everything I want into this device. I want it to think like I think and it’s not there yet. My kids just pick it right up. Then I’ve also noticed the older audience who can’t type very well are pretty good at using the voice system as well.

Michael Utley: Ah, interesting. Yeah.

David Chism: So you’ve got, so I’ve kind of… And then I’ve watched how they’ve used it and they search for all sorts of things and then there are people searching for contractors using your voice and depending on the device… So you’ve got your Google, you’ve got Apple that’s utilizing, you know that Apple’s a major competitor of Google so sometimes they’re going to switch it to, they want you to use Apple maps, they want you to use Yelp for search results sometimes. So if you’re searching for a painter using Siri, you’re typically going to be routed to Yelp right away. So not Bing, not Yahoo, not even Google. It’s going to be Yelp right away. So whether you have the digital screen that pops up or you’re on… ‘Hey give me some painters near me.’ Boom, Yelp pops in and shows you all.

David Chism: So those are all the things we’re going to have to… And then Amazon, you can’t forget Amazon who owns Alexa. They’re also dabbling in the home improvement industry and trying to have home services and painters in there. And so when you start mixing up Alexa, they’re going to start pulling from their pool of preferred contractors as well. So got to keep up on that and make sure that your company doesn’t be left behind. I also would say that you got to be careful too on some of that because I’ve talked about this before about Amazon and it’s these big companies is that in a sense they can own you too. So if you don’t pay them the money… I had this experience with Amazon when they first did this home services is if you partner up with Amazon, then your customers are not your customers, they’re Amazon’s customers. So that’s a whole topic. Maybe another podcast on that.

Michael Utley: Yeah I think, I was thinking about, you know, if you go through Home Depot or Costco, they’re essentially kiosking services businesses into their real estate. There are pros and cons to that for the partner organizations and there are pros and cons to the customer. You know, we’ve used ARS a number of times because that was our kind of default option through Home Depot. And my goodness, that’s probably been a great relationship for ARS, but eventually they want to kind of own us separately from whatever percentage they’ve had to pay Home Depot. It’s fascinating how the voice devices and some of the different ways of doing things are siloing things further. We’re not headed toward more centralization. We’re headed toward more diversity. Well good. Well we got to wrap up there. This has been a great episode. David, any other closing thoughts, comments, anything burning things to share?

David Chism: Nope, not that I can think of.

Michael Utley: Good. All right, well this has been good. There are lots of blind spots and if you’re worried about your business or just want to grow and be more proactive with your digital marketing, I’d welcome everyone to check out and the podcast as always is brought to you by where we just do the SEO part. David does everything under his quarterback services. He has an a team, ready to do advertising, SEO, video production, print marketing, shirts, hats, uniforms, everything for marketing. He is the starting point if you’re sort of on the cusp of thinking about your budget for next year and ready to grow. Give him a shout through and Chris why don’t you get us out of here.

Chris Raines: The end. Was that too hard?

Michael Utley: No, that’s good.

Chris Raines: Okay. We’ll see ya on the next one.

Michael Utley: Yep. [inaudible 00:15:46]

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